Crespidus - Mar 12, 2008 03:33pm

A twelve-month long drop in temperatures wipes out a century of warming.

Evidence of the cooling world...China has its coldest winter in 100 years, Bagdad has its first ever recorded snow, North America has the most snowcover in the last 50 years, record levels of Antartic sea ice, and record cold in Minnesota, Texas, Florida, Mexico, Australia, Iran, Greece, South Africa, Greenland, Argentina, Chile, and more.

Acording to all four major global temperature tracking outlets (Hadley, NASA’s GISS, UAH, RSS) the total amount of cooling ranges from 0.65C to 0.75C - a value that nearly erases all the warming recorded in the last 100 years.

Is this why we have to call it Climate Change now and no longer Global Warming?

(info from DailyTech)

Climate change aside, the increasing levels of pollution are killing thousands of people each year.  The World Bank reported that up to 760,000 people die prematurely each year in China from water and air pollution.  That’s reason enough to support a movement towards change.

“Climate change aside, the increasing levels of pollution are killing thousands of people each year.  The World Bank reported that up to 760,000 people die prematurely each year in China from water and air pollution.  That’s reason enough to support a movement towards change.”

What is the main topic of the thread?  Why would you ask for it to be put aside?

In no way do I think the death of 760,000 people is acceptable, no matter what the “cause”.  I think your tactic of trying to get me to argue for 3/4 million deaths is sneaky.  What other causes of death are you fighting in China?  Communism? This might also be a good place for you to use the “women’s rights” arguement, as the females born and promptly disposed of may need a voice.

If the world really is cooling, maybe in addition to limiting pollution we should find a way to store the CO2, so we can warm the world back up when it starts getting cold.

Joey—you may have just come up with something!  How about we tax the bojangles out of the rich countries that produce so much to fill their glut-fueled super power (all to curb global warming of course) While at the same time we pay the poor countries with nothing to build a footprint Goliath would shudder at (to keep us from entering the next ice age)!  I say we start by shipping all Hummers to Kenya.

Go read “The Coming Global Superstorm” It has interesting facts in every other chapter, while telling a story of what could happen at the same time.

surfbum - Mar 13, 2008 03:16pm

Crespidus - Mar 12, 2008 03:33pm

A twelve-month long drop in temperatures wipes out a century of warming.

Evidence of the cooling world...China has its coldest winter in 100 years, Bagdad has its first ever recorded snow, North America has the most snowcover in the last 50 years, record levels of Antartic sea ice, and record cold in Minnesota, Texas, Florida, Mexico, Australia, Iran, Greece, South Africa, Greenland, Argentina, Chile, and more.

Acording to all four major global temperature tracking outlets (Hadley, NASA’s GISS, UAH, RSS) the total amount of cooling ranges from 0.65C to 0.75C - a value that nearly erases all the warming recorded in the last 100 years.

Is this why we have to call it Climate Change now and no longer Global Warming?

(info from DailyTech)

if you knew anything about “global warming,” you wouldn’t have asked that question. i will, however, address it in a minute. but first, the reason it’s now referred to as “climate change.” the reason global warming is no longer global warming, but “climate change” is b/c the latter is too simplistic. it implies, very wrongly, that the buildup of co2 in our atmosphere will cause a simple, steady, increase in temerature all over the globe. we’re coming to learn that this is simply not true. the effects are bizarre & widely variable.
that nicely transitions into your original question. b/c of how complex the earth’s climatological system is, the effects of pumping massive amounts of co2 & other greenhouse gases into the air is fairly unknown. what IS known, china’s bitter winter notwithstanding, is that as co2 increases in the atmosphere, earth’s AVERAGE temperature rises as well, & in largely identical manner.
now here’s where skeptics hop on board: as the earth’s climate destabilizes, weather patterns become increasingly unpredictable. some regions will encounter bitterly cold winters, while others will have blistering heat waves. my personal experience w/ it this past winter has been something of a microcosm of that. we got our first snow on 12/5. 6+ inches of the stuff, which is virtually unheard of for this region, esp. that early in the season. 1 week later, however, it was 65 degrees & sunny. even at the height of winter, we didn’t see the biting winds & foul weather that normally accompanies winter in the northeast. & not a SINGLE nor’easter worth mentioning. when i was growing up, there were at least 2-3 per year.
what skeptics tend to grab onto in refutation of climate change are these short-term coolings as has happened in china. they say things like, “how can global warming be true when china’s buried under a blanket of snow?” it’s a blind & negligent statement to make. all you have to look at the long term data of earth’s temperature & carbon emissions to see the correlation.

does that answer your question?

Looking forward to Crespidus’ response.

http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm

As you will see at the link above, those like me that believe human caused global warming is a farce, constantly are bombarded with grasping at short-term events to “prove” the GW theory.  I still believe that once the verbage switched to “Climate Change” it was a sign of the wheels falling off.  The models have been extremely wrong so far (off by approx. 0.2C)and now the CO2 causes wide variences in normal weather.  I remember South Dakota winters with snow piled up as high as the rooftops when I was a kid, and now the snow just gets to the bottom of the windows, the Earth is warming.  Last year in Washington it rained the entire month of June, record amounts and the sun was nowhere to be seen, Global Cooling?  I don’t believe your statements change the idea that the same type of arguement made for human-induced Global Warming, will be made for human-induced Global Cooling, and human-induced elevated Global rainfall etc.

Graphs and graphics are going to show exactly what the person creating them wants them to show.  I am sure you know of the many graphs that “show” the CO2 lags behind the warming by decades, and the graphs that say the warming lags behind the CO2 by centuries.  All in all, this “science” is in its infancy, there is no way a conclusion can be drawn.

At the same time, I am often put into a catagory of “Earth-hater”, which could not be farther from the truth.  I encourage everyone to do what they can to keep their neighborhood clean, and using less oil and such is a personal decision I would look at as a positive for anyone.  I just don’t take it well when someone tells me I have to do something to “save the Earth” or when laws change to save what we could not alter if we tried.

surfbum - Mar 14, 2008 08:06pm

EDIT: i wish i’d never clicked on the link you supplied. it’s bullshit. i clicked on a few of the more outlandish sounding things & all it was was a link to a blog. a blog! ANYONE can create a blog & put whatever they want in it. if i wanted to, i could start a blog & state that i believe that dolphins farting is the biggest cause of methane release on the planet. & while we’re persecuting dolphins, i think that THEY’RE the reason fisheries are collapsing. it’s not our fault…
blogs are not reliable, peer-reviewed scientific papers, so anything contained therein (unless a reliable source is listed) is suspect.

Hahahaha… Love the analogy.  I, too, have often wondered about dolphin farts.

If we can agree that no one knows for sure the full scope of the effects of increased CO2 emissions, but that there is sufficient data to support the hypothesis that it can certainly have a negative impact on the environment and may also contribute to the symptoms of global warming, then wouldn’t it be more responsible to prepare for the worst and adapt more environmentally friendly habits and policies, despite the lack of concrete data we have currently, instead of simply choosing to remain in the bliss of ignorance until it is finally too late to do anything???  It’s your choice what you choose to believe and no one can change your mind for you, but when it comes to our opinions about the environment, we all have to ask ourselves whether we really think we’re choosing the right path or the more convenient one.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88520025

More evidence from the beloved NPR…

RE:  the dolphin farts discussed by surfbum & adreneline...A UN report in December of 2006 actually said Cow “emissions” were the greatest threat to the climate, forests and wildlife.  The report is titled “Livestock’s Long Shadow”, I am sure you can find a copy of it somewhere on the net if you use the google, it may be on a blog though.  There are lots of fun facts in the report (livestock are responsible for 18% of the global warming causing gases...more than cars, planes, and all other transport put together.)

Leave the dolphins ALONE!!!  Plug the Cows!

As a newly converted believer in human-induced global warming, I am by no means an expert.  However in my personal research I have uncovered that the majority of the “science” that claims global warming is NOT caused by humans, is, to a large extent, presented or interpreted by individuals that have some affiliation to big oil companies or somehow benefit monetarily from the production or sale of fossil fuels.  While the science that supports human-induced global warming is peer-reviewed, scientific data.

Now, I am open to the idea that in the history of the earth, in all its climate fluctuations, we are but a speck in the timeline and with that, there is no way to be 100% certain that this is not just a natural wave of climate change.  But, all things considered, it is logical to believe that humans are affecting the climate in some way.  And knowing that, why not use our knowledge to proactively reduce the amount of fossil fuel production.

im no expert but we do need to accept the fact that we are actually contributing to global warming. even if this is just a wave in an increase in temperatures we still are creating a greenhouse with all of our carbon dioxide we are putting out into the atmosphere. the sunlights wave rays are too small for CO2 to absorb as they are coming toward earth so it gets through and the more CO2 we put out the less of earths heat we can let out back into space to even out the heat. this of course will take a very long time and i believe the good lord would come get us before this could happen.

YAY OIL

Here are Nobel-winning scientists talking about these issues.  This is very long, but if you skip forward to 1:03:50, you will hear a question and answers that are relevant to this discussion.

https://breeze.psu.edu/p84766772

On the whole “golobal warming is caused by humans or not” issue, I believe that the actual science of measuring climate change is somewhat innaccurate until our instruments and techniques become more reliable. But really, the data aquired so far points entirely to a large increase in global temperature linked with the rising co2 levels, which no one can disagree are caused by us. Even if our planet isn’t catastrophically warming, there’s no harm in doing all we can to cut pollution and other contributing factors. I used to be quite skeptical until I realised this. Whatever happens I beleive that humans will make it through this crisis like we have all others, with our ingenuity and combined willpower we can make change.